tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post1155805247792831898..comments2023-07-21T03:05:37.043-07:00Comments on Godless Gross: Easter Triple Bill no 2 – Why was Jesus killed?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-73641707115229148452013-04-27T10:24:33.010-07:002013-04-27T10:24:33.010-07:00Jesus wasn't a genie, nor is He one today.
D...Jesus wasn't a genie, nor is He one today. <br /><br />Dick Gross, or anybody else on this blog, do you want Jesus to be real? Or are you just frustrated that He's seemingly not that to you? <br /><br />Is there a way to partner with theists (of any sort) to bring your vision of peace in the world to the earth? <br /><br />Do you think your vitriol is a stronger mortar than love? Do you think there's a way to love somebody out of belief? Or would you rather just make fun of them until they realize they're stupid? This is to say, is there a way to show Jesus' love -- even if you think it's fabled -- to everybody?<br /><br />My prayer to God everyday is that they know I'm Christian by my love. What do you hope people know see through your love?<br /><br />Hope you have a great day, brotha.<br /><br />Julian.Julianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08794830060141096695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-77547822454153697192013-04-15T19:25:57.577-07:002013-04-15T19:25:57.577-07:00Dick
I've suspected for some time that biblic...Dick<br /><br />I've suspected for some time that biblical description of The Passion may simply be a description of the Roman mental health system of the time, so I'm glad to see someone else suggesting Jesus was bi-polar with a messiah complex. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-17419994341185158192013-04-08T01:24:28.783-07:002013-04-08T01:24:28.783-07:00Thanks for that last one Robin. I appreciate that...Thanks for that last one Robin. I appreciate that and all you have written about the culpability of the Jews.<br /><br />Yours in conflict of interest,<br /><br />DickDick Grosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952896660861760777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-76678395943624284062013-04-07T22:08:20.408-07:002013-04-07T22:08:20.408-07:00Apparently it works even if I leave the "URL&...Apparently it works even if I leave the "URL" blank. But I don't get the cute little pirate picture.Long John silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-19945882467464554172013-04-07T22:06:05.950-07:002013-04-07T22:06:05.950-07:00I can remember my name, but what's the URL? OR...I can remember my name, but what's the URL? OR is it based on that TV show - "My name is url"?<br /><br />LJSLong John silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-34709805776030185202013-04-07T18:20:14.107-07:002013-04-07T18:20:14.107-07:00I would agree that the blame attributed to the Jew...I would agree that the blame attributed to the Jews in general is a gross misrepresentation and the Gospels probably do not fairly represent what happened - it is a story told by their enemies.<br /><br />As I said before I can't see how, even if the Sahendrin had sought his death that this would somehow equate to the Jews being responsible for his death.<br /><br />And your description of them as virtually never seeking a capital penalty is consistent with the way we see the Jewish religion developing in the Bible, from a strict and sometimes bloodthirsty cult in the first 5 books to a religion where strict religious observance is valued less than living a good life by the later prophets.<br /><br />But I still think that you have to read rather selectively to find any good in the depiction of Pilate. When Jesus is brought to him bound he say, in effect, "I am not going to kill him - you kill him".Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-87798371756535227132013-04-05T03:42:04.392-07:002013-04-05T03:42:04.392-07:00That doesn't really answer my questions.
You ...That doesn't really answer my questions.<br /><br />You keep mentioning the treasures of the Temple that were taken by Vespasian. Well they can only steal that once.<br /><br />As for tithes, 25% is only a large number if is 25% of a much larger number.<br /><br />Again, what evidence is there that the Jewish people after 70 CE, those who survived the genocide, were not sold into slavery and were not scattered far and wide, regrouped and became the sort of economic powerhouse that could provide a massive source of wealth to the Roman empire during Constantine's reign. Some pots found in burial mounds is not evidence for that.<br /><br />And getting back to Jesus' time, as I pointed out before, the treasure of the Temple remained intact during this time. The Romans gathered tax from them as they did from those who they occupied but I am still not seeing how this relates to the subject of why Jesus was killed.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-68458989978361721262013-04-05T03:16:41.676-07:002013-04-05T03:16:41.676-07:00Pirate, with computers I work on the principle of ...Pirate, with computers I work on the principle of push all the buttons until something happens. Somehow I managed to be a follower as well as a member of Godless Gross, but I'm BIIK how I did it. Also I don't know the difference between follower and member. Just means my little ted, reading his book gets his upside picture on the site twice.:) And let's just say the picture was meant to be upside down.<br />Triciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538437394106769684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-13688871074475981692013-04-05T02:08:43.684-07:002013-04-05T02:08:43.684-07:00Try the "name/url" optionTry the "name/url" optionboofnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-61768681394291043682013-04-04T05:19:12.012-07:002013-04-04T05:19:12.012-07:00Well, I'm still computer illiterate enough to ...Well, I'm still computer illiterate enough to have my posts as "anonymous" because Ican't figure out which menu item will put my name on things!<br /><br />LJSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-1755484925702383822013-04-03T23:07:31.784-07:002013-04-03T23:07:31.784-07:00The depiction of Pilate is contentious. I reckon ...The depiction of Pilate is contentious. I reckon that we can see both good and bad in the man depicted. Having said that, he was insufficiently evil in the gospels to attract blameworthiness in the centuries that followed. The Jews copped the blame and Pilate is seen in similar ways to that which I depicted Peter - a normal man in difficult circumstances who made an understandable judgment call. I hope that helps Robin. DickDick Grosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952896660861760777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-63262678047766384012013-04-03T23:04:08.954-07:002013-04-03T23:04:08.954-07:00Yes good question. I forget where I read that. I ...Yes good question. I forget where I read that. I think it was a Jewish encyclopaedia.????? Dick Grosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952896660861760777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-14278367907406664402013-04-03T23:03:14.766-07:002013-04-03T23:03:14.766-07:00Dear Robin,
You are right. Peter was in an appalli...Dear Robin,<br />You are right. Peter was in an appalling situation. I just bring two acts together to make this assertion. First the incident at the crucifixion and secondly, the Convocation in Jerusalem decades later when he went into the meeting opposed to Paul's position on Jewish observance and then meekly folded. Both times, he was incredibly sensible. But one could also, in a jocular tone, argue that he lacked some spine. Easy to assert from 2000 years away in the comfort of my office. DickDick Grosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10952896660861760777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-61838753905209750762013-04-03T19:10:47.884-07:002013-04-03T19:10:47.884-07:00Robin,"what does this have to do with the sto...Robin,"what does this have to do with the story of Jesus' death?" The Jesus parables, and they are only a stories, no proof whatsoever, came out of these times of upheaval. To understand this story one must try to understand the politics and peoples of the time.<br /> Vespasian discovered that the Roman empire was broke when he became emperor, but the spoils of war from Judea, the riches of the Temple treasury the golden vessels from the Temple and the seized personal treasures of Jewish citizens created enormous wealth for Rome and the army commanded by his son Titus. Feldman (Louis H, Studies in Hellenistic Judaism) describes a hidden inscription on the Colosseum itself that suggests the construction of the amphitheater was financed by the plundered booty from the Jewish Revolt.<br />"Did a scattered and beaten people really regroup and build up a new treasure in a couple of centuries so that it would be worth the attention of a Roman emperor?"<br />Yes, tithes were the income tax of the day and handed to the priests, equating to 25% of earnings, made up of a Temple tax a Land Sabbath Tax and a Special Profit-Sharing Tax. Big business such as this came about only with religious fervor or the sword.<br />"Where was the money in this case?" In burial pits found, even today, throughout Judea in archaeological digs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09927704652730813717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-62426175035439248112013-04-03T18:29:01.252-07:002013-04-03T18:29:01.252-07:00Dick, when it comes to computers I don't know ...Dick, when it comes to computers I don't know my patootie from my patella. (I realise this may shock you - not) I amused myself by pointing out the time thingy. Sometimes this potty pawed princess needs to be ignored, some might say most of the time.<br /><br />Hiya Pirate. How's 'life on the ocean waves'? Have ya chucked the in laws overboard yet? Obviously 1969 was a good blog vintage, heady with a touch of tannin.<br /><br />Finished being silly, for now....<br />Triciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538437394106769684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-67567904760422273572013-04-03T15:58:08.343-07:002013-04-03T15:58:08.343-07:00I didn't say that you said that he was around ...I didn't say that you said that he was around at the time. I said I couldn't see the relevance and I still can't.<br /><br />The DSS treasure is surely pretty problematical - what were a group of ascetics doing with a big stash?<br /><br />We don't really know that it existed.<br /><br />The Arch of Titus depicts the treasures of the Temple as the spoils of war but whether or not this can be regarded as a "horde" or not I am not sure.<br /><br />In any case the Siege of Jerusalem left the Jewish people decimated and scattered. They couldn't even get away with swallowing stuff to smuggle it out as the Roman soldiers would kill them and cut it out (which was apparently an action too cruel for even Titus).<br /><br />People talk of "tithes" as though they would have been a massive source of income but we have no reason to believe this. Did a scattered and beaten people really regroup and build up a new treasure in a couple of centuries so that it would be worth the attention of a Roman emperor?<br /><br />And the question remains - what does this have to do with the story of Jesus' death? Where was the money in this case? Not for the golden Menorah and trumpets in the temple since they were apparently still there in 70 CE<br />Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-41948061105072368002013-04-03T06:42:22.381-07:002013-04-03T06:42:22.381-07:00Robin, I never said Constantine was around at the ...Robin, I never said Constantine was around at the time of JJ and crew, I drew reference to the fact that the Roman empire was always aware of the potential money spinner the Jewish cults were, which came about because of tithes. <br />Pompey in 68 BC attacked Judea because Hyrcanus and Aristobulus had started a bloody civil war, which was ruining Judaea. To Pompey the situation offered a golden opportunity. There's evidence in the DSS of 8000 and 6000 kg lots of silver and 800kg gold chains, also from the DSS "The conqueror saw the Menorah, the treasure and all sacred vessels." <br />This was repeated in 70 ad by Titus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus depicts the golden horde paraded through the streets of Rome.<br />It's always about the money <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09927704652730813717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-42205460910262283302013-04-03T04:39:19.619-07:002013-04-03T04:39:19.619-07:00The Jewish Virtual Library also confirms what is i...The Jewish Virtual Library also confirms what is in John 18 - that this would be after the time that the Sanhedrin had lost the authority to pass a sentence of capital punishment - hence the need to ask the Romans to do it.<br /><br />Jesus was at the head of an armed group - it appears that he sometimes attracted large followings but was happy to alienate them too, which would seem pretty unstable behaviour.<br /><br />And he was clearly saying things that would have attracted a death sentence under Jewish law.<br /><br />So I see no major objection to the idea that the Sanhedrin wanted him dead.<br /><br />And as I say I can see no exoneration of Pilate - he is depicted as cruel, unjust, arbitrary and weak.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-41171987869970285912013-04-03T04:09:08.315-07:002013-04-03T04:09:08.315-07:00Oh, I see you probably mean stability from the Rom...Oh, I see you probably mean stability from the Roman point of view. Oh well the NT pretty much says that.<br /><br />I imagine that the job of a governor would have been to ensure maximum stability - quelling a rebellion being a pretty bloody expensive exercise.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-79146327050331817892013-04-03T04:05:32.021-07:002013-04-03T04:05:32.021-07:00I am not sure what relevance Constantine has to a ...I am not sure what relevance Constantine has to a discussion about the crucifixion of Jesus.<br /><br />But I am having trouble with the idea that the Jewish people would be much of a cash cow at any time, never mind during the time of Constantine.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-79225687488161367492013-04-03T04:01:42.703-07:002013-04-03T04:01:42.703-07:00Incidentally - do you have a source for saying tha...Incidentally - do you have a source for saying that the Sanhedrin virtually never condemned people to death? Not doubting you understand but I have not heard it before and I would be interested.<br /><br />Incidentally, from the wording in the NT it appears that under the occupation they did not have the power to condemn someone to death.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-10585438909808834872013-04-03T03:53:32.596-07:002013-04-03T03:53:32.596-07:00Pilate exonerated?
He is depicted as not wanting ...Pilate exonerated?<br /><br />He is depicted as not wanting to punish Jesus and then, when it looks like people might make trouble for him, changes his mind and tortures and kills a man he regards as innocent because some people are making a fuss.<br /><br />Quite a new and unfamiliar usage of the word "exonerate" IMORobinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-39420389951066396392013-04-03T03:47:47.646-07:002013-04-03T03:47:47.646-07:00As to Peter being "weak as water", you m...As to Peter being "weak as water", you might need to think yourself into the situation. Everything had gone pear shaped and he had been spotted. He knew that he would probably be killed by those people and that he would be - like - HURT by them and they say "Do you know this man?".<br /><br />I would call him weak as water if I was sure that I would say "yes" in this circumstance.<br /><br />As it is I say that he failed to show extraordinary courage.<br /><br />Surely he showed courage later - preaching a religion regarded as heretical in circumstances where this might bring down every sort of grief on his head.<br /><br />As for his dealings with Paul - surely he was simply reconciled with him, or maybe compromised with him.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-3436201100855864102013-04-03T03:36:46.059-07:002013-04-03T03:36:46.059-07:00Nevertheless I agree about stability - I would ima...Nevertheless I agree about stability - I would imagine that, being an occupied people, they had good reason to be obsessed with stability and maintaining a coherent culture connected to the past.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-603901925729307572013-04-03T03:34:23.632-07:002013-04-03T03:34:23.632-07:00Was supposed to be a joke actually. Should have p...Was supposed to be a joke actually. Should have put a smiley :)Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015911138886238144noreply@blogger.com