tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post7991779371494936768..comments2023-07-21T03:05:37.043-07:00Comments on Godless Gross: Resurrection makes the Government more GodlyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger233125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-30943663947045933272013-07-04T17:52:49.973-07:002013-07-04T17:52:49.973-07:00" I predict that if you don't get it reco..." I predict that if you don't get it reconnected in double quick time it will die because it is no longer under the auspices of the soul which controls the body's functioning and brings life to all of it's (connected) parts."<br /><br />I predict it will die because it's not getting any blood filled with nutrients. If my finger is severed and hooked up to a blood supply and continues to 'live' then it must have a soul. Cells have the same issue they must have souls as they can be kept alive outside of the body.<br /><br />"As I said, they're not in the same sense that an arm or a leg is."<br /><br />As I said, yes they are. If I had the equipment I could cut a few atoms off.<br /><br />"You've got it backwards Stranger. It's not “the body's soul”; it's the soul's body. The soul is the essential component."<br /> No you have it backwards. The soul is already there in the particles that make up atoms, according to you. So the body, as a collection of particles, does not need a soul.<br /><br />" A body requires a far more complex soul to build a far more complex entity."<br /><br />No it doesn't as the soul is already in the atom and thus is able to build more complex things because that's what atoms do. You don;t even have a clue about the shit you make up.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-61734967935993290342013-07-04T17:43:23.355-07:002013-07-04T17:43:23.355-07:00"I doubt if I would be by you if I were to pr..."I doubt if I would be by you if I were to present the most compelling evidence Stranger."<br /><br />How would you know as you haven't produced any evidence so far.<br /><br />" The soul of the major entity would be unique, not be an amalgam of the sub entities within it."<br /><br />Why? The sub-entities are what makes up the body.<br /><br />"I guess that depends how you define 'essential'. "<br /><br />Stick to the dictionary and stop making up your own definitions.<br /><br />" (I did say “more essential”)"<br /><br />Something can't be more essential than something else that is essential.<br /><br />" Software can be removed and used in other situations."<br /><br />Not necessarily.<br /><br />"The mantra goes on."<br /><br />Then stop making things up.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-55216309008641764672013-07-04T17:38:35.748-07:002013-07-04T17:38:35.748-07:00"I think it's important to continue to &#..."I think it's important to continue to 'do the science' because all knowledge can be enlightening and useful. "<br /><br />Why then do you ignore the knowledge gained by science in favour of your made up bullshit?<br /><br />"The only thing to be careful of is the assumptions made when seeking and interpreting data."<br /><br />Yet you assume God has to be involved in everything.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-40386817215551629772013-07-04T15:36:08.818-07:002013-07-04T15:36:08.818-07:00“I am part of one entity called a society (despite...“I am part of one entity called a society (despite what Mal thinks). Does society have a soul which encompasses me and all the other non-randian members of that society?” (Long John Silver11:12 PM)<br /><br />I think it might be a good idea to stick to individual entities. The soul of a group might be the common ideology that binds the individual entities together but I don't think it's the same sort of thing because the soul of an individual entity is it's direct connection to the creator.RalphH 05/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-88646516512744127212013-07-04T15:34:31.610-07:002013-07-04T15:34:31.610-07:00“*"Quite, which means they must have souls ac...“*"Quite, which means they must have souls according to the object they make up as you can't have animal atoms having a human soul.”* (Stranger5:46 PM)<br /><br />This also raises the question of what happens when I eat meat. If I eat a steak, the atoms which once belonged to the cow are transformed into my own atoms - does the spirit of the cow therefore join with my spirit?” (Long John Silver11:06 PM)<br /><br />I think you're getting your souls and spirits a bit mixed up Long John. I'm sure you can continue to be a carnivore with a clear conscience. It might be a good place to mention the personality change that has been reported with some organ transplants. I doubt that's a 'soul' issue but it is interesting and could involve some level of the spirit.<br /><br />“Or if I have the sort of accident which us pirates are at risk of, and my leg is eaten by a crocodile. Would the leg continue to have part of my soul, or does the crocodile develop a partially human soul?”<br /><br />Probably not a good idea to experiment with your remaining leg.<br /><br />“Would I still have a wooden leg in heaven (assuming that I repented enough to get into heaven)?”<br /><br />That's a definite no. It's only the physical body that can be so damaged. Your spiritual body which you retain in the afterlife is complete – perfect and beautiful if you choose an altruistic, heavenly way of life and ugly and deformed if you choose a selfish, hellish existence.RalphH 05/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-957555196928992052013-07-04T15:33:00.122-07:002013-07-04T15:33:00.122-07:00“They are if they become severed. So when someone ...“They are if they become severed. So when someone gets an(d) appendage cut off it immediately gets a soul. How does that work?” (Stranger7:52 PM)<br /><br />Try it Stranger. I suggest a finger rather than an arm. I predict that if you don't get it reconnected in double quick time it will die because it is no longer under the auspices of the soul which controls the body's functioning and brings life to all of it's (connected) parts.<br /><br />“*"Atoms are not parts of a body."* (RalphH)<br /><br />After I stopped laughing. Yes they are.”<br /><br />As I said, they're not in the same sense that an arm or a leg is. Try cutting off five atoms instead of your finger.<br /><br />“The body is nothing more than a collection of atoms, each with their own soul according to you. So where does the body's soul come from?”<br /><br />You've got it backwards Stranger. It's not “the body's soul”; it's the soul's body. The soul is the essential component. The body comes from/is formed by the soul. All souls come ultimately from God – it's all about creation.<br /><br />“*"The soul of an atom is what makes it to be an atom, nothing more."* (RalphH)<br /><br />Which means there's no need for a body soul as the atoms already do what they do.”<br /><br />Not so, the soul of an atom produces an atom – which continues to be an atom regardless of what more complex entity it becomes incorporated in. A body requires a far more complex soul to build a far more complex entity.<br />RalphH 05/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-29925832147254930372013-07-03T23:32:27.035-07:002013-07-03T23:32:27.035-07:00"I doubt if I would be by you if I were to pr..."I doubt if I would be by you if I were to present the most compelling evidence Stranger."<br /><br />Why not try it, just as an experiment. Present some compelling evidence for your statements regarding the soul and/or spirit and see what happens. Or ANY evidence.Long John Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-25151642306355222352013-07-03T23:12:07.088-07:002013-07-03T23:12:07.088-07:00"They are parts of one entity called a body w..."They are parts of one entity called a body which has a soul that encompasses all these parts."<br /><br />I am part of one entity called a society (despite what Mal thinks). Does society have a soul which encompasses me and all the other non-randian members of that society?Long John Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-70936413739350891152013-07-03T23:06:06.750-07:002013-07-03T23:06:06.750-07:00"Quite, which means they must have souls acco..."Quite, which means they must have souls according to the object they make up as you can't have animal atoms having a human soul."<br /><br />This also raises the question of what happens when I eat meat. If I eat a steak, the atoms which once belonged to the cow are transformed into my own atoms - does the spirit of the cow therefore join with my spirit?<br /><br />Or if I have the sort of accident which us pirates are at risk of, and my leg is eaten by a crocodile. Would the leg continue to have part of my soul, or does the crocodile develop a partially human soul? Would I still have a wooden leg in heaven (assuming that I repented enough to get into heaven)?<br />Long John Silvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-59686230121342519302013-07-03T22:25:34.681-07:002013-07-03T22:25:34.681-07:00“Actually it's pretty obvious that the body is...“Actually it's pretty obvious that the body is involved, but is only part of the things that make up 'you'.” (Stranger7:43 PM)<br /><br />Agreed, but only on a temporary basis. It's no longer needed when we 'move on' so is left behind.<br /><br />“You can suggest what you like but we don't have to take you seriously unless you can provide evidence.”<br /><br />I doubt if I would be by you if I were to present the most compelling evidence Stranger.<br /><br />“Yes it does matter because you need to explain why a human soul is made up of souls from other organisms.”<br /><br />That's a funny idea. I certainly didn't suggest anything like that. The soul of the major entity would be unique, not be an amalgam of the sub entities within it.<br /><br />"Using a computer as an analogy the latter would be the software and the former/(the physical) would be the hardware. Which is the more essential? - the software or the hardware?"<br /><br />“For computers both are essential or the computer is useless.”<br /><br />I guess that depends how you define 'essential'. I doesn't mean that either non-essential (I did say “more essential”). Software can be removed and used in other situations. The hardware is merely a physical tool that extends human capabilities. <br /><br />“But you are still making things up.”<br /><br />The mantra goes on.RalphH 04/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-14785056318874549112013-07-03T21:58:23.387-07:002013-07-03T21:58:23.387-07:00“My view is that neuroscience is busy unravelling ...“My view is that neuroscience is busy unravelling the mysteries of self and identity and that it will take us a long way down the road of figuring ourselves out. “ (Terry7:16 PM)<br /><br />I appreciate your view Terry and regardless of who is right (or partially right as the case may be), I think it's important to continue to 'do the science' because all knowledge can be enlightening and useful. The only thing to be careful of is the assumptions made when seeking and interpreting data.RalphH 04/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-88746491528000687712013-07-03T19:55:55.082-07:002013-07-03T19:55:55.082-07:00"The soul, being the very core of a being'..."The soul, being the very core of a being's/entity's existence is the link through which God raises up a body/physical entity which clothes the soul so that it may operate in a physical environment."<br /><br />You made that up.<br /><br />"The only real/original and originating power in existence, is God (Biblically called 'Almighty'). All other power including all the energy of the natural universe derives from God."<br /><br />And that. Why do you saying things you know aren't true because you made them up?Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-67324258819279912142013-07-03T19:52:21.332-07:002013-07-03T19:52:21.332-07:00"Now you're being incredibly silly. Arms,..."Now you're being incredibly silly. Arms, fingers, fingernails and intestines are not entities of themselves."<br /><br />They are if they become severed. So when someone gets and appendage cut off it immediately gets a soul. How does that work?<br /><br />"Atoms are not parts of a body."<br /><br />After I stopped laughing.. Yes they are.<br /><br />"The constituent atoms having souls in no way conflicts with the overall soul of the entity that they is incorporated in."<br /><br />Yes it does. The body is nothing more than a collection of atoms, each with their own soul according to you. So where does the body's soul come from?<br /><br />"The soul of an atom is what makes it to be an atom, nothing more."<br /><br />Which means there's no need for a body soul as the atoms already do what they do.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-69154937781057559372013-07-03T19:43:29.635-07:002013-07-03T19:43:29.635-07:00"“What exactly are YOU (not being personal – ..."“What exactly are YOU (not being personal – that's a collective 'you')?” Pretty obviously not the physical body."<br /><br />Actually it's pretty obvious that the body is involved, but is only part of the things that make up 'you'.<br /><br />". I suggest that 'YOU' are the soul and spirit that resides in the body and uses it for it's own ends."<br /><br />You can suggest what you like but we don't have to take you seriously unless you can provide evidence.<br /><br />" (it doesn't really matter if it's mostly empty space or if 90% of it is made up of other cellular living organisms."<br /><br />Yes it does matter because you need to explain why a human soul is made up of souls from other organisms.<br /><br />"Using a computer as an analogy the latter would be the software and the former/(the physical) would be the hardware. Which is the more essential? - the software or the hardware?"<br /><br />For computers both are essential or the computer is useless.<br />But you are still making things up.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-60303042500825648702013-07-03T19:36:53.199-07:002013-07-03T19:36:53.199-07:00"I have told you before that I regard Feynman..."I have told you before that I regard Feynman as one of the influences for the modern collapse in science."<br /><br />Yet you are quite happy to use the fruits of modern science.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17489942433860007521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-28844898004808924942013-07-03T19:16:52.508-07:002013-07-03T19:16:52.508-07:00Ralph:
I don’t know the answer to your question ...Ralph: <br /><br />I don’t know the answer to your question about what makes us individuals who we are. But I don’t think the answer is what you say it is. There’s no evidence for souls. That’s nothing more than a wild speculation. And it can’t be taken seriously.<br /><br />My view is that neuroscience is busy unravelling the mysteries of self and identity and that it will take us a long way down the road of figuring ourselves out. Whether it can go all the way and give a complete answer to your question, I don’t know. The notion of science identifying the self depends on the self actually being able to identify itself, if you get what I mean.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-43844775113186260962013-07-03T17:39:29.740-07:002013-07-03T17:39:29.740-07:00“LJS has a point. Your body is not a distinct enti...“LJS has a point. Your body is not a distinct entity. That is an illusion. ….what exactly is the entity that the soul occupies?” (Terry4:28 PM)<br /><br />I think you raise an interesting point Terry but I don't think it makes it more difficult to describe the soul. I think it makes it imperative. Given what you've said about the make-up of the body, I think the question becomes, “What exactly are YOU (not being personal – that's a collective 'you')?” Pretty obviously not the physical body. I suggest that 'YOU' are the soul and spirit that resides in the body and uses it for it's own ends. From what you have said you have only a very tenuous ownership of your body at the best of times.<br /><br />Some people's idea is that a soul is something tacked onto a body or something that arises from the body or body function. I suggest that is completely wrong. The soul pre-dates the body. The soul is the essential 'YOU'. Initially it exists only in potential. To come into existence it needs a body as a means to express itself so it builds one – a physical body from material substance (it doesn't really matter if it's mostly empty space or if 90% of it is made up of other cellular living organisms. The point is that it works and is able to build up an individual life for itself. <br /><br />As well as building a physical body it also builds a spiritual body – the mental/non-physical component. Using a computer as an analogy the latter would be the software and the former/(the physical) would be the hardware. Which is the more essential? - the software or the hardware? <br />RalphH 04/07noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-90908639045066159232013-07-03T16:54:52.216-07:002013-07-03T16:54:52.216-07:00The letter "R" exists. Therefore there m...The letter "R" exists. Therefore there must be an "R"soul.LJSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-53995517565332050132013-07-03T16:33:18.734-07:002013-07-03T16:33:18.734-07:00"Arms, fingers, fingernails and intestines ar..."Arms, fingers, fingernails and intestines are not entities of themselves. "<br /><br />Define "entity" (not you Mal, I want to know what Ralph's definition is, so that I can find out what sort of thing - in Ralph's opinion - can have a soul)LJSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-87428770309506100482013-07-03T16:30:05.191-07:002013-07-03T16:30:05.191-07:00Mal - "at 5:04AM ... I defined ethics."
...Mal - "at 5:04AM ... I defined ethics."<br /><br />Sure you did. Here is the "definition" you offered -<br /><br />"Ethics is a code of values to guide man’s choices and actions - the choices and actions that determine the purpose and the course of his life. "<br /><br />Every religious person I've ever met would insist that their religion fits perfectly into that definition.<br /><br />"Ethics, as a science, deals with discovering and defining such a code."<br /><br />This tells us nothing about how such discoveries & definitions are arrived at. I am sure that Ralph has invested a certain amount of time in discovering and defining the Swedenborgian code which guides the choices and actions that determine the purpose and the course of his life. I don't consider his stories of Swedenborg having discussions with angels to have a great deal of scientific value.<br /><br />Is scientology a branch of science? According to your "definition", it must be.LJSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-78323185842707114112013-07-03T16:28:27.217-07:002013-07-03T16:28:27.217-07:00Ralph: [Arms, legs, etc] are parts of one entity c...Ralph: [Arms, legs, etc] are parts of one entity called a body which has a soul that encompasses all these parts.<br /><br />LJS has a point. Your body is not a distinct entity. That is an illusion. For one thing, around 90 per cent of the cells in your body belong not to you, but to microbes. And without those microbes you can’t exist, which begs the question of whether the microbes form part of you or not.<br /><br />For another thing, at the atomic level, there is no discernible boundary whatsoever that describes your body. All you will find there is empty space with the occasional fleck of an electron or nucleus.<br /><br />All of this makes it difficult for you to describe a soul. If the human body is little more than a collection of microbial colonies, and the atoms that make up the body just empty space with no discernible boundary, then what exactly is the entity that the soul occupies?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-35776597915725103952013-07-03T15:46:29.861-07:002013-07-03T15:46:29.861-07:00LJS: "previousa refgerence"??? I think t...LJS: "previousa refgerence"??? I think the soul of my computer has been possessed by demons!<br /><br />Latin-speaking demons?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-54428814866096226282013-07-03T15:44:37.054-07:002013-07-03T15:44:37.054-07:00Mal: What on earth made you think I would even com...Mal: What on earth made you think I would even comment?<br /><br />Your ego.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-83607238639010426892013-07-03T15:39:00.424-07:002013-07-03T15:39:00.424-07:00Mal: Feynman is an incompetent in the field of sci...Mal: Feynman is an incompetent in the field of science.<br /><br />The humble opinion of an intellectual vegetable who thinks the solar system is four thousand billion years old.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15975119.post-38534331862761185662013-07-03T09:02:30.054-07:002013-07-03T09:02:30.054-07:00“Noone said that souls are made of atoms. However,...“Noone said that souls are made of atoms. However, it is logical to conclude that according to your original claim, atoms have souls.” (LJS5:52 AM)<br /><br />Malcolm certainly inferred that they were when he used the term “soul atoms”.<br /><br />“According to your theory, I have a soul, because I exist. My arm has a soul, because my arm exists. My fingers have souls, because my fingers exist. My fingernails also exist (I wonder what happen to a fingernail soul when I clip my nails?). My intestine has a soul. And the atoms which make up my body also have souls. According to your claim, I have a multitude of souls.” <br /><br />Now you're being incredibly silly. Arms, fingers, fingernails and intestines are not entities of themselves. They are parts of one entity called a body which has a soul that encompasses all these parts. <br /><br />Atoms are not parts of a body. They are building blocks. They are entities in their own right that are incorporated in the body. They could just as well have been incorporated in some other body or something else. <br /><br />The constituent atoms having souls in no way conflicts with the overall soul of the entity that they is incorporated in. The soul of an atom is what makes it to be an atom, nothing more. RalphH 04/07noreply@blogger.com